Permanent TSB Group Holdings plc
WKN: A14P7U / ISIN: IE00BWB8X525Irish Life&Per. Unentdeckter Vervielfacher?
20.06.11 20:29
#326
Thailand2006
Verbilligen??
Soll man jetzt noch ein paar Shares kaufen? Mein EK ist momentan 0,098, eine Verbilligung reizt schon? Meinungen dazu???
21.06.11 06:21
#327
meingott
Verbilligen?
Denkst du, daß sich dann fundamental etwas verändert?
Merke dir, verbilligen bringt dir bei Blue Chips etwas...aber nicht bei Zockerpapieren oder Ko Scheine.
Wenn sich ILP retten kann, dann dürften hier auf Sicht von 2-3 Jahren von den jetzigen Kursen weg mehr als 100% drinnen sein ;-))
Und wenns schief geht, dann geht deine Invest mit samt den neuen billigen Papieren den Bach runter.
Also. Betrag wählen, bei dem Totalverlust keine Rolle spielt und laufen lassen.
Hopp oder Dropp.
Merke dir, verbilligen bringt dir bei Blue Chips etwas...aber nicht bei Zockerpapieren oder Ko Scheine.
Wenn sich ILP retten kann, dann dürften hier auf Sicht von 2-3 Jahren von den jetzigen Kursen weg mehr als 100% drinnen sein ;-))
Und wenns schief geht, dann geht deine Invest mit samt den neuen billigen Papieren den Bach runter.
Also. Betrag wählen, bei dem Totalverlust keine Rolle spielt und laufen lassen.
Hopp oder Dropp.
24.06.11 12:02
#328
neureich13
IL&P's insurance arm in trade sale - Bank verkauft
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/...n-trade-sale-2804880.html
Noonan aims to offload IL&P's insurance arm in trade sale
By Siobhan Creaton
Friday June 24 2011
The Government is hoping to sell Irish Life & Permanent's insurance arm as part of a trade sale instead of offloading it to investors in a share flotation according to Finance Minister Michael Noonan.
Speaking at the Financial Services Ireland annual members' lunch yesterday, Mr Noonan said the process will begin shortly.
"We are within weeks of being able to announce that we are going to market to sell the insurance side," he said. "In the first instance we hope to do it by a trade sale. If that does not work, there are obviously other options."
IL&P plans to send a memorandum of understanding to potential buyers who have expressed an interest in the firm's insurance arm in the next couple of weeks.
The minister said that Anglo Irish Bank, which has now begun the process of selling its $10.3bn loan book of US commercial property, should complete that transaction by the end of August or early September.
The money raised from this sale will be paid back to the Central Bank which lent emergency loans to the now failed bank at the height of the financial crisis.
The Government has made progress on burden-sharing with bondholders, he said, referring to AIB's recent decision not to pay out fully on subordinated bonds that will yield savings of €1.6bn.
Mr Noonan said that money would otherwise have had to come from the taxpayer.
This exercise is part of the Government's plans to save about €5bn through deals with junior bondholders in the four Irish banks that will force them to accept huge haircuts or discounts on the debts they are owed.
The department will continue to be hands-on in dealing with the banks' non-core assets but will "pull back" on the banking side to let the new boards and directors run the banks.
"We don't want the banking side to be run by civil servants," he said. "There is no future in that". The banks need to get back to "old-fashioned banking," he added.
- Siobhan Creaton
Irish Independent
Noonan aims to offload IL&P's insurance arm in trade sale
By Siobhan Creaton
Friday June 24 2011
The Government is hoping to sell Irish Life & Permanent's insurance arm as part of a trade sale instead of offloading it to investors in a share flotation according to Finance Minister Michael Noonan.
Speaking at the Financial Services Ireland annual members' lunch yesterday, Mr Noonan said the process will begin shortly.
"We are within weeks of being able to announce that we are going to market to sell the insurance side," he said. "In the first instance we hope to do it by a trade sale. If that does not work, there are obviously other options."
IL&P plans to send a memorandum of understanding to potential buyers who have expressed an interest in the firm's insurance arm in the next couple of weeks.
The minister said that Anglo Irish Bank, which has now begun the process of selling its $10.3bn loan book of US commercial property, should complete that transaction by the end of August or early September.
The money raised from this sale will be paid back to the Central Bank which lent emergency loans to the now failed bank at the height of the financial crisis.
The Government has made progress on burden-sharing with bondholders, he said, referring to AIB's recent decision not to pay out fully on subordinated bonds that will yield savings of €1.6bn.
Mr Noonan said that money would otherwise have had to come from the taxpayer.
This exercise is part of the Government's plans to save about €5bn through deals with junior bondholders in the four Irish banks that will force them to accept huge haircuts or discounts on the debts they are owed.
The department will continue to be hands-on in dealing with the banks' non-core assets but will "pull back" on the banking side to let the new boards and directors run the banks.
"We don't want the banking side to be run by civil servants," he said. "There is no future in that". The banks need to get back to "old-fashioned banking," he added.
- Siobhan Creaton
Irish Independent
25.06.11 08:17
#329
meingott
Also keine Verstaatlichung
Wir wollen nicht das Bankensystem Seite von Beamten ausgeführt werden", sagte er. "Es gibt keine Zukunft in diesem". Die Banken müssen wieder zu "old-fashioned-Banking", fügte er hinzu.
- Siobhan Creaton
- Siobhan Creaton
27.06.11 16:57
#331
ipson
...oh ILP mein Sorgenkind...
...wann werden wir hier mal Nägel mit Köpfen sehen... braucht wohl alles noch etwas Geduld ;-(
27.06.11 18:03
#332
1ALPHA
Staat will ILP KE
zu 6ct zeichnen :
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/...ef-idUSL6E7HR2WS20110627
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/...ef-idUSL6E7HR2WS20110627
28.06.11 08:48
#333
1ALPHA
Da Reuters
die ILP Meldung noch einmal verändert hat, hier der aktuelle link :
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/...0110627?type=companyNews
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/...0110627?type=companyNews
28.06.11 09:47
#334
neureich13
Die Meldung im Wortlaut
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/...0110627?type=companyNews
Der Link funktionierte zeitweilig nicht!
Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:38pm EDT
* IL&P to delist from main Irish, UK stock exchanges
* Bancassurer to sell Life business in coming months
* Will become fifth lender taken over by state (Adds trader comment, detail)
By Padraic Halpin
DUBLIN, June 27 - Irish Life & Permanent (IL&P) advised shareholders to accept an effective nationalisation of the bancassurer or risk its collapse in the face of a near 4-billion euro ($5.7 billion)capital hole and reliance on emergency central bank lending.
Once feted as the only Irish bank to avoid a state bailout due to its lack of exposure to property developers, IL&P's business model came unstuck when the country's lenders were locked out of debt markets, creating a huge funding strain for its residential mortgage book.
Stress tests agreed as part of an EU-IMF bailout in March showed the bancassurer needed to raise 4 billion euros in extra capital, sending its share price nosediving from 1 euro at the end of December to less than 20 cents.
IL&P, which was relying on the European Central Bank for 30 percent of its funding at April 30 -- and had the highest loan-to-deposit ratio in the industry at 218 percent on the same date -- was trading at 6 euro cents on Monday,
That was a far cry from the 18 euros it hit in early 2007 when Ireland's property bubble was at its height.
"It's a lost cause. The stock is worthless," said one trader.
The company plans to sell its cash-rich life insurance arm, with an embedded value of around 1.6 billion euros, but with nearly three-quarters of the additional capital due by the end of July, the government is the only option.
"The board believes ... state investment is the only viable alternative for the company and ... given the risk of further value destruction in the event the proposals are not implemented, recommend shareholders vote in favour," Irish Life & Permanent's chairman Alan Cook wrote in a letter to investors.
"Following the state investment, the minister (for finance) is likely to own in excess of 99 percent of the ordinary shares of the group."
Shareholders will vote on the proposals, which involve the government pumping in 2.7 billion euros -- 2.3 billion euros via ordinary shares and some 400 million euros via a contingent capital note -- before the end of July.
The Emergency General Meeting (EGM) will be held on July 20. IL&P has raised 200 million euros towards its 2.9 billion euros end-of-July bill from internal resources.
The state capital injection would see IL&P delist from the Irish and London stock exchanges on Aug, 19 and move to Ireland's secondary Enterprise Securities Market (ESM), where shares of state-run Allied Irish Banks now trade.
Cook warned that if shareholders voted down the plans the government could use sweeping new powers to inject the capital on less favourable terms, and there was no guarantee the shares would trade on the ESM.
The expected injection means Ireland will have taken over five of its once six-strong domestic banking sector by the end of next month, with Bank of Ireland struggling to avoid making it a clean sweep.
Under the plans, the Irish government will subscribe 2.3 billion euros for 36.2 billion shares at about 6 cents each.
If the group fails to raise 1.1 billion euros by selling its life business and imposing losses on junior bondholders, the state will provide that amount by subscribing for shares, also at 6 cents, on a date to be specified by the central bank or government.
Selling the life business, likely via a trade sale, will offset some of an expected 1 billion euros capital gain from imposing losses on junior bondholders, because the life business contributed to IL&P's capital reserves.
The contingent capital note to be issued by the government is a five-year subordinated, unsecured security with a 10 percent coupon, similar terms to a 1 billion euro note to be issued for Bank of Ireland.
Dissident shareholders in IL&P said last week they requested an EGM to change the bancassurer's recapitalisation plans.
None of the resolutions put forward by the group, which claims to represent over 14 percent of the bancassurer's share capital, were included in proposals for the July 20 meeting.
The company said on Monday the minister for finance could apply for a court order to approve the eventual sale of the life business, bypassing the need for shareholder approval. ($1 = 0.698 Euros) (Writing by Carmel Crimmins; Editing by David Hulmes)
Der Link funktionierte zeitweilig nicht!
Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:38pm EDT
* IL&P to delist from main Irish, UK stock exchanges
* Bancassurer to sell Life business in coming months
* Will become fifth lender taken over by state (Adds trader comment, detail)
By Padraic Halpin
DUBLIN, June 27 - Irish Life & Permanent (IL&P) advised shareholders to accept an effective nationalisation of the bancassurer or risk its collapse in the face of a near 4-billion euro ($5.7 billion)capital hole and reliance on emergency central bank lending.
Once feted as the only Irish bank to avoid a state bailout due to its lack of exposure to property developers, IL&P's business model came unstuck when the country's lenders were locked out of debt markets, creating a huge funding strain for its residential mortgage book.
Stress tests agreed as part of an EU-IMF bailout in March showed the bancassurer needed to raise 4 billion euros in extra capital, sending its share price nosediving from 1 euro at the end of December to less than 20 cents.
IL&P, which was relying on the European Central Bank for 30 percent of its funding at April 30 -- and had the highest loan-to-deposit ratio in the industry at 218 percent on the same date -- was trading at 6 euro cents on Monday,
That was a far cry from the 18 euros it hit in early 2007 when Ireland's property bubble was at its height.
"It's a lost cause. The stock is worthless," said one trader.
The company plans to sell its cash-rich life insurance arm, with an embedded value of around 1.6 billion euros, but with nearly three-quarters of the additional capital due by the end of July, the government is the only option.
"The board believes ... state investment is the only viable alternative for the company and ... given the risk of further value destruction in the event the proposals are not implemented, recommend shareholders vote in favour," Irish Life & Permanent's chairman Alan Cook wrote in a letter to investors.
"Following the state investment, the minister (for finance) is likely to own in excess of 99 percent of the ordinary shares of the group."
Shareholders will vote on the proposals, which involve the government pumping in 2.7 billion euros -- 2.3 billion euros via ordinary shares and some 400 million euros via a contingent capital note -- before the end of July.
The Emergency General Meeting (EGM) will be held on July 20. IL&P has raised 200 million euros towards its 2.9 billion euros end-of-July bill from internal resources.
The state capital injection would see IL&P delist from the Irish and London stock exchanges on Aug, 19 and move to Ireland's secondary Enterprise Securities Market (ESM), where shares of state-run Allied Irish Banks now trade.
Cook warned that if shareholders voted down the plans the government could use sweeping new powers to inject the capital on less favourable terms, and there was no guarantee the shares would trade on the ESM.
The expected injection means Ireland will have taken over five of its once six-strong domestic banking sector by the end of next month, with Bank of Ireland struggling to avoid making it a clean sweep.
Under the plans, the Irish government will subscribe 2.3 billion euros for 36.2 billion shares at about 6 cents each.
If the group fails to raise 1.1 billion euros by selling its life business and imposing losses on junior bondholders, the state will provide that amount by subscribing for shares, also at 6 cents, on a date to be specified by the central bank or government.
Selling the life business, likely via a trade sale, will offset some of an expected 1 billion euros capital gain from imposing losses on junior bondholders, because the life business contributed to IL&P's capital reserves.
The contingent capital note to be issued by the government is a five-year subordinated, unsecured security with a 10 percent coupon, similar terms to a 1 billion euro note to be issued for Bank of Ireland.
Dissident shareholders in IL&P said last week they requested an EGM to change the bancassurer's recapitalisation plans.
None of the resolutions put forward by the group, which claims to represent over 14 percent of the bancassurer's share capital, were included in proposals for the July 20 meeting.
The company said on Monday the minister for finance could apply for a court order to approve the eventual sale of the life business, bypassing the need for shareholder approval. ($1 = 0.698 Euros) (Writing by Carmel Crimmins; Editing by David Hulmes)
28.06.11 09:50
#335
neureich13
Aus Irish Independent von heute - verstaatlicht
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/...-end-of-july-2806996.html
IL&P will be in full state ownership by end of July
Legal action by shareholders won't block €3.4bn takeover
By Donal O'Donovan
Tuesday June 28 2011
IRISH Life & Permanent (IL&P) will be in complete state control by the end of July, the company said last night. The news left furious shareholders considering legal challenges.
Yesterday Irish Life & Permanent said the Government would own more than 99pc of the company once the Department of Finance pumped €3.4bn in fresh cash into the banking and insurance group.
The news came as the board of directors called an extraordinary general meeting (EGM) for July 20 to clear the way for the state takeover.
Shareholders attending the July 20 meeting will be asked to vote on the recapitalisation plans, including the State's capital injection. Accepting the plan means shareholders voting themselves out of existence so the proposal is likely to be rejected.
However, the company said if shareholders rejected the proposal it expected the Government to push ahead with the plan regardless, using the sweeping powers available under the Credit Institutions Stabilisation Act brought in last year. That will mean a trip to court for an order under the act, granting power to overturn the results of the EGM.
The shareholder that has led a campaign to try to block the State's plans said nationalisation of the bank was "malicious and wrong" and compared Finance Minister Michael Noonan to Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe.
"This is a viable, significantly overcapitalised company and there is no need for this dramatic action," said Piotr Skoczylas of Scotchstone Capital Fund,
He said shareholders would legally challenge the State once it sought an order from the courts and warned of protests from 100,000 small investors with shares in the company.
A spokesman for Mr Noonan said the State would seek control of the company because it was the only source for the €3.4bn. "The State has offered to provide the capital but only if that investment is protected by taking ownership of the company," the spokesman said.
The State's capital injection will not affect the sale of Irish Life, the company's life assurance business. It is understood the company will issue an information memorandum relating to a trade sale of the company in the coming days.
IL&P needs to raise €3.4bn by July 31 to meet capital requirements set by the Central Bank and has failed to find private sector investors to plug that funding gap.
The EGM is separate to an EGM that has already been demanded by a group of shareholders opposed to the State's plans for IL&P.
Recapitalisation
That meeting must be held by the end of August and was called to try to prevent the recapitalisation taking place.
The EGM demanded by the shareholders will go ahead even though the EGM called by the directors will have been held in the meantime, and despite the likelihood of full state control by the time shareholders' own motions can be debated.
Mr Skoczylas says there is no economic need to recapitalise the bank by the end of July and wants the timetable extended.
The July 31 deadline for recapitalising IL&P was set by the troika of the ECB, IMF and European Union that are managing the Irish bailout.
Shares in IL&P closed at 6 cent yesterday.
The company will be the fifth Irish financial institution to come under government control. Bank of Ireland, which is 36pc owned by the State, is trying to raise enough capital from private investors to avoid majority state ownership.
- Donal O'Donovan
Irish Independent
IL&P will be in full state ownership by end of July
Legal action by shareholders won't block €3.4bn takeover
By Donal O'Donovan
Tuesday June 28 2011
IRISH Life & Permanent (IL&P) will be in complete state control by the end of July, the company said last night. The news left furious shareholders considering legal challenges.
Yesterday Irish Life & Permanent said the Government would own more than 99pc of the company once the Department of Finance pumped €3.4bn in fresh cash into the banking and insurance group.
The news came as the board of directors called an extraordinary general meeting (EGM) for July 20 to clear the way for the state takeover.
Shareholders attending the July 20 meeting will be asked to vote on the recapitalisation plans, including the State's capital injection. Accepting the plan means shareholders voting themselves out of existence so the proposal is likely to be rejected.
However, the company said if shareholders rejected the proposal it expected the Government to push ahead with the plan regardless, using the sweeping powers available under the Credit Institutions Stabilisation Act brought in last year. That will mean a trip to court for an order under the act, granting power to overturn the results of the EGM.
The shareholder that has led a campaign to try to block the State's plans said nationalisation of the bank was "malicious and wrong" and compared Finance Minister Michael Noonan to Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe.
"This is a viable, significantly overcapitalised company and there is no need for this dramatic action," said Piotr Skoczylas of Scotchstone Capital Fund,
He said shareholders would legally challenge the State once it sought an order from the courts and warned of protests from 100,000 small investors with shares in the company.
A spokesman for Mr Noonan said the State would seek control of the company because it was the only source for the €3.4bn. "The State has offered to provide the capital but only if that investment is protected by taking ownership of the company," the spokesman said.
The State's capital injection will not affect the sale of Irish Life, the company's life assurance business. It is understood the company will issue an information memorandum relating to a trade sale of the company in the coming days.
IL&P needs to raise €3.4bn by July 31 to meet capital requirements set by the Central Bank and has failed to find private sector investors to plug that funding gap.
The EGM is separate to an EGM that has already been demanded by a group of shareholders opposed to the State's plans for IL&P.
Recapitalisation
That meeting must be held by the end of August and was called to try to prevent the recapitalisation taking place.
The EGM demanded by the shareholders will go ahead even though the EGM called by the directors will have been held in the meantime, and despite the likelihood of full state control by the time shareholders' own motions can be debated.
Mr Skoczylas says there is no economic need to recapitalise the bank by the end of July and wants the timetable extended.
The July 31 deadline for recapitalising IL&P was set by the troika of the ECB, IMF and European Union that are managing the Irish bailout.
Shares in IL&P closed at 6 cent yesterday.
The company will be the fifth Irish financial institution to come under government control. Bank of Ireland, which is 36pc owned by the State, is trying to raise enough capital from private investors to avoid majority state ownership.
- Donal O'Donovan
Irish Independent
28.06.11 10:53
#342
ipson
...scheiße!
...habe nochmal für 0,03 nachgelegt, ist entweder mitverbrannt oder aber eine sinnvolle Verbilligung, ich habe wirklich grade keine Ahnung, der Staat schnappt sich 99%, verkauft die Versicherungssparte, kassiert die Erlöse und speist uns mit 1% ab... ohne Worte ;-(
28.06.11 10:53
#343
1ALPHA
Dann rechnen wir doch 'mal :
4 milliarden
minus 400 Mill. Darlehen
minus 1Milliade durch subordinated bonds
minus Verkauf Irish Leben ca. 1,1Mrd.
ergibt ca. : 1,5 Mrd. € durch den Staat
gleich wieviel Aktien an den Staat ?
Richtig ! Die Presse hats 'mal wieder unkorrekt berichtet.
Bis demnächst + Tschüss
minus 400 Mill. Darlehen
minus 1Milliade durch subordinated bonds
minus Verkauf Irish Leben ca. 1,1Mrd.
ergibt ca. : 1,5 Mrd. € durch den Staat
gleich wieviel Aktien an den Staat ?
Richtig ! Die Presse hats 'mal wieder unkorrekt berichtet.
Bis demnächst + Tschüss
28.06.11 10:59
#344
ipson
...da solche Nachrichten immer sehr
panisch aufgenommen werden, denke ich der Kurs wird sich wieder etwas erholen, aber wo er letztendlich landet...???
28.06.11 11:15
#346
ipson
...dann wären wir sowas in der Art wie
RBS oder AIB light, auch das wäre nicht das Ende, aber wenn uns 1% bleibt ist das halt nicht viel.
28.06.11 11:18
#347
Funkadelic
also
lieber nicht nachkaufen? wäre ja echt super zum verbilligen...
28.06.11 11:25
#348
Cyberkunde
ich würde jetzt kaufen weil:
Warum sollte das Dingen nun noch weiter fallen. 3 cent sind meiner meinung nach eine minimale Bewertung unserer Anteile (0,7%). Demnach hätte das ILP einen Wert von knapp 700 MIO EURO. Für ein solches Unternehmen sicherlich nicht viel, wenn man bedenkt, dass sie über mehr als 4 MRD zusätzlich EK, sowie über eine hochprofitable Versicherungssparte verfügen. - Ich könnte mir gut vorstellen, dass in ein, zwei Jahren der Kurs bei 10cent + steht. Jetzt zu verkaufen macht meiner Meinung nach überhaupt kein Sinn.
Ich hab heute mein Bestand verdoppelt.
An alle die noch nicht mitgemacht haben:
http://www.ilpshareholders.com/your_feedback.php
Eine Aktion um unsere Rechte zu vertreten!!!
Ich hab heute mein Bestand verdoppelt.
An alle die noch nicht mitgemacht haben:
http://www.ilpshareholders.com/your_feedback.php
Eine Aktion um unsere Rechte zu vertreten!!!
28.06.11 11:27
#349
ipson
...ich habe auch verdoppelt, was mir aber
noch immer einen MK von 0,08 beschert ;-(
28.06.11 11:30
#350
Cyberkunde
Naja, die 0,08 werden wohl nicht so schnell
wiederkommen, außer wir können über www.ilpshareholders.com solch ein Druck aufbauen, dass der Staat uns ein paar mehr Prozente zusichert. Schaut euch AIB an, dort liegt der Staatsanteil soweit ich weiß bei 93%.
Wenn der Staat uns z.B.: 7% zusichern würde, dann könnte man getrost von Kursen rund um 12-15 cent ausgehen. Potenzial für die kommenden Jahre bis zu 30c...
Natürlich nur meine Ideen... ;)
Wenn der Staat uns z.B.: 7% zusichern würde, dann könnte man getrost von Kursen rund um 12-15 cent ausgehen. Potenzial für die kommenden Jahre bis zu 30c...
Natürlich nur meine Ideen... ;)